Canadian Originals is a series by Will Chernoff featuring exclusive long-form interviews with Cellar Music artists from Canada. In this edition of this series, Will talks to trumpeter and singer-songwriter Bria Skonberg about her album What It Means (release date: July 26, 2024). Bria grew up in Chilliwack, BC and has been based in New York City for several years, being best known for her work in the hot jazz genre but also branching out across multiple award-winning albums in her discography.
Will is a bassist and a writer at the Vancouver jazz website Rhythm Changes. He spoke to Bria by videocall on August 30, 2024.
WC: Thank you, Bria, for joining me. It's funny timing, because I'm here in Coquitlam, you're in New York now, and I think you were just in BC. Have you been having a good summer?
BS: Oh, yes, so good. Yes, I'm back in New York City after a couple of weeks, actually, back home visiting my family in the Fraser Valley. I feel refreshed, I feel rejuvenated, I feel full of love and family, and I feel ready to get back to it at the same time. September: this part of the year always has that good energy.
WC: What are you launching into now that you're back for the fall?
BS: I have a handful of dates in support of the album release. Of course, lots of things on the east coast of the US, I'll be going to Europe in November, just celebrating all the good things that have come from this release so far. I have performances in Boston, New York City a couple nights actually, featuring Herlin Riley on drums, and we'll see what else comes up.
WC: Can you talk about playing with Herlin Riley and having him on what it means?
BS: Oh man, it's like you get a first-class train ticket anywhere you want to go. You just jump on that group train and have a good time. Yeah, he was the launching pad for what I wanted the album to sound like once the producer Matt Pierson and I pieced together that, you know what, we need to go to New Orleans to make this happen. “Who would be your dream band?” I've just been such a big fan of him. and for so many years what was wonderful and surprising while I was playing with him, or listening back to the recording, was hearing all the things that were played and saying, did he actually do all those things at the same time? There are all these tasteful little details throughout: a brushstroke here, a little piece of cowbell there, or something that just enhances that immense pocket that he always puts down.
And he's totally easygoing, such a pro. I could say that for pretty much everybody on the album that recorded. They came in and were just the highest calibre of professionalism and musicality, and yet so laid-back. It was a wonderful way to ease out of the feeling of not having played with people so much during the pandemic, and and just remember the joys of getting to play music with other people.
WC: So that short-scale feeling where you had a relaxing August, and now you're ready to hit the road and support this album – you could also extrapolate that to the whole period of the last few years where you made this album, and now you're back at it. And you've put it out after a little bit of a tumultuous time.
BS: Absolutely. I think music like New Orleans styles, it's got to simmer a little bit. And these are some things that have been simmering in the pot, simmering in the can. And now it's like, all right, let's get it out in front of the people. Let's go.
WC: What was your first album that you worked on with Matt Pierson? Was it the Bria album in 2016?
BS: Yeah. So how Matt and I came together is I was performing at the Jazz Standard in New York city with my quartet, I think at the time. The club owner invited Matt and said, hey, I think you should hear this girl. And right after he was just like, let's grab a coffee. I got to know more about him and his sensibilities and we really developed a friendship, a trusting relationship. We talked about the music that we had both put together to date. But yeah, the Bria album, we came up with a collection of songs and ideas, and he's so good for me because he can edit through my ideas and get to the heart of what is going to make the most sense together.
I have a lot of ideas all the time! Just blah, blah, blah... I can spew out ideas for days. But we put together that collection, and he was working with Sony at the time. The album was crowdfunded, so it was really a wonderful story of the community coming together and supporting this idea that I was making another move. I put together an all star band. And I think, yeah, it got the best versions of those songs that we possibly could have at that time.
WC: Yeah. Another thing that I noticed and I wanted to hit that was fun was on the album before Bria, Into Your Own. You have a song by John Lennon on that album, and now 10 years later you have another song by John Lennon. You have “Julia” from the White Album on Into Your Own back then, and you obviously have “Beautiful Boy”, which is one of the hits of this album, I would say it's not controversial to say now.
So you've got two John Lennon songs that you've done in your discography now.
BS: Yes. And actually, now that you bring it up, on Nothing Never Happens, I mashed “Blackbird” together with Ellington’s “Black and Tan Fantasy”. That speaks to the songwriting of those guys and how great music can be great, songs can be idolized for so long because they are malleable, they're relatable and yet they don't necessarily need to live in just one way. But yes, I think a lot of what this album is about for me is really understanding what it is that I do. It's taken a while, because I have a lot of ideas, and my first albums everywhere that would come out as eclectic, those are the reviews [...] “Where's she going with this?” But as you look back over the last seven studio albums that I've done, there are lines through all of them. There's mashups, these funny arrangements of trad tunes. I'm not surprised that Lennon, or the idea of the Beatles, has shown up a couple of times.
WC: Yeah. Another fun thing was that you have exactly one or two tangos, or like what to me feels like tango, on every album. I'm not sure that you do on What it Means, actually. This might be your first tango-free album [laughs], but that was something I noticed.
BS: [Laughs] We'll have to change that. Is that true?
WC: I don't know. It depends on what you define as a tango.
BS: What I hear from that is the drama of that minor, major, back-and-forth pull like a dance. I think that's why I was drawn a lot to the music of Sidney Bechet. And there's a lot of Spanish tunes, there's a lot of tango in New Orleans music. It's straight and swinging at the same time. Yeah. You can tell. I love that. I really enjoy it. Is there nothing that happens on this album? I have to look at it.
WC: The other thing about it though is, now that I think about it, you probably don't have that straight-up groove or arrangement on Nothing Never Happens, because it's such a genre departure on the whole. But the feeling that you described of drama that you want to create, it's almost like you just spread that feeling across the whole album and took it to different places on Nothing Never Happens. So that one probably doesn't have it either.
BS: The one that comes to mind is “Bang Bang”, because when it breaks into that solo section, it's a ultimately a bambula beat behind that. I focus on those basic ingredients of jazz music, the cultural rhythms that were coming together: bambula, claves, habanera rhythms, yeah. And build off of those.
WC: Yeah. I love that you brought up the mashup too, in the context of John Lennon, because I was definitely going to bring that up with you. The mashup is also something that you’ve used a few times, and the other ones that come to mind for me are from With a Twist, “Alright, Okay, You Win” and the “Soul Bossa Nova” bassline; and then you've got on What it Means, the closer with “Lullabye (Goodnight, My Angel / A Child Is Born)”, right?
The mashup. And of course you mentioned the “Blackbird” and “Black and Tan”. The mashup is another arrangement tool that you've used across your discography, including on this new album.
BS: Sure. Hey, I like to look at them as puzzles, find a common theme that links these things together ultimately that I love, or that might pique the average listener, general listeners’ ears. Pull some new people in, but also wink at the jazz crowd too. “Haha, did you hear that?”
In “Beautiful Boy”, there are elements of another song in there as well. It's a special thing that maybe gets brought out a little bit more in the live version, but you can hear a little bit of “Li’l Darlin’” in that. Actually, there's some themes, because the subtext of “Beautiful Boy” is “Darling Boy”. So there were just things like that, that I tend to mess around with. I like word games. I like puzzles. I like seeing how harmonies can overlap in interesting ways.
WC: Yeah, and it seems like you've come up with a very... like you said, you're just winking at the jazz people, you're not completely pandering to them. You’re doing it in a subtle and very accessible way that's still fun for you to put together, but it doesn't come out as an entirely nerdy or intricate thing.
BS: Yeah, there are a couple of easter eggs on this album, for sure. Like behind “Petit Fleur”, which could be seen as the... I mean, it's swinging, but it's got the Sidney Bechet, the minor tango-esque, if we will, nuance.
The bass line is inspired by the big band version of “Harlem Nocturne”, interestingly enough. There's a lot of nerdy stuff there if you look, if you want to find it.
WC: Yeah, the only other thing that was like, does this qualify as a mashup or not really, and I didn't investigate how much of the rhythm is on the most famous recording of the song – in “The Beat Goes On”, there's the Lee Morgan “Sidewinder” thing.
BS: Of course. Of course! Yes. And in that the background lines are the same, but in the other direction. Yeah. That's all intentional.
WC: Yeah. Okay, another name that I want to ask you about – because I’ve not heard this musician live, but I have heard his records, and now I know that he is a significant collaborator for you – can you tell me about playing with Chris Pattishall?
BS: Yeah, Chris and I have played together for about 10 years, and I wanted to have a piece of New York. At this point of his career, Chris can pick and choose what he wants to do. He's been doing a lot of film scoring. We've played everything from like Louis Armstrong tributes – with the VSO [Vancouver Symphony Orchestra], he came and performed – I got to play with the Baker symphony orchestra a few years ago, and he was the pianist in the band then. And so that's it: we're either playing these little itty-bitty clubs, or we play in concert halls together. We've spent a lot of time on the road together talking and getting to know each other, so I do consider him a friend. And I feel that he's supportive in so many ways and is just like a master of creating a mood within a song, creating a vision.
WC: Yeah, you mentioned the VSO: when were some of the other last times that you have come to play in Vancouver? I'm trying to recall what they would have been, those occasions.
BS: The VSO was January of 2020...
WC: Yeah.
BS: I've played at Frankie's a couple times, less often than I'd like, if I have to think about it. Often when I come home, I play for the swing crowd, the Arntzen family. I think about however many years ago as I came to play, Lloyd Arntzen had his 90th birthday, and I wasn't about to miss that! There are so many communities in Vancouver and the Fraser Valley, different musical communities that have supported me. I was the guest artist at Capilano University before 2020, and that was such a thrill and so wild to sit in the band room where I got my degree and went through the whole process of learning, gaining musicality and confidence. And then to sit there and get to speak to students about my journey was extremely humbling and gratifying at the same time. I don't know if they got anything out of it, but I got to perform with the A-band and NiteCap and see my old teachers. Those are the moments that really pull it full circle and mean the most, and keep you grounded ultimately.
WC: You don't need to produce an exhaustive list, but who were some of those old teachers?
BS: I saw Dave Robbins. I saw Mary Jo Bischoff. Réjean, I think, came by. Réjean Marois. They weren't able to make it those days, but Kevin Elaschuk and Alan Matheson were my trumpet instructors and I just, I have to give them all the credit in the world, because I came out of Chilliwack with a bunch of raw materials but no refinement whatsoever. They really helped me learn how to play the trumpet and just kept me motivated and interested to continue. The more that I get to travel around schools and have my ear to the ground with different students all over the continent, that's not always the case. Cap was a warm, nurturing environment, as I remember it. Who else did I see on that visit Steve Kaldestad, he was super helpful. And what's funny to me is that my really good friend, Dan [Hersog], he’s the head of the jazz studies program now, and we were a year apart growing up! I just love seeing how culture is vibrant there. It's regenerative.
WC: And you and Dan Hersog are both Cellar artists right now.
BS: Yeah!
WC: So where were you at, and what was the stage of this development, when you first played “Cornet Chop Suey”? Because that probably comes back from your Chilliwack days or from your learning days, or maybe from Alan Matheson or something like that. When did that tune enter your learning journey into your life?
BS: My learning journey. Exactly. That's a good way to put “Cornet Chop Suey” [laughs]. It must've been grade 12. I joined the Chilliwack senior trad jazz combo in 11th grade. And my teachers – Rob Hopkins, Gary Raddysh – we had stock transcriptions of Louis Armstrong: some of his most famous solos, “Potato Head Blues”, “Cornet Chop Suey”, “West End Blues.” They were like, why not? Let's give these to her. And I didn't know any better if it was hard or not, so I just tried [...] I remember performing those songs at one of the local band festivals where all the big bands go and compete against each other. And then Chilliwack puts up this trad band, and the adjudicators were like, we don't know what to say, but that was great! It's very challenging stuff.
I didn't have a private trumpet instructor until I got to Kevin [Elaschuk, at CapU], but by learning Armstrong solos, it's an arpeggio exercise. That was my teacher, learning Louis transcriptions. Honestly, I was playing along with recordings; that's what I would do for the most part: being in an environment that encouraged me to try and take chances, working with Alan, developing that side of things. For me, he took me down into some of the places where swing overlapped with bebop. I won't go too deep down that rabbit hole. He was helpful to bridge those styles for me, and for me to be able to embrace the challenges of later styles as well.
WC: That must have also been one of the big things that always drew you to the music of Sidney Bechet, because he is definitely representative of what you just alluded to that maybe Alan was talking to you about.
BS: Most definitely. Yes. Alan helped me work back in another direction too. I was highly intimidated by classical music and playing it, but he made it more approachable for me. And Kevin really gave me a chance to focus on improvising and going after sounds, not just getting freaked out by the notes or theory of things.
WC: Now, as we look ahead, there's the opportunity for people to hear you on the road in all these places that you started mentioning at the beginning, and I just wanted to come back to that [...] You have a fair number of musicians on What It Means. What is your road band going to look like, and how's that going to work over the course of these shows you have coming up?
BS: It's a quintet. That seems to be the most manageable amount of people I can have together and fit in a minivan, which is great. Always my preferred rhythm section. I expect to have them in February [at Jazz at the Bolt in Vancouver] plus saxophone, plus a reed player.
The special sauce on this album is the bass clarinet [...] It's so good when you hear it. I think that what's important about this album, and especially the collaboration with getting to release it on Cellar, is it's a full-circle feeling, like a coming-home project for me. It was like, what are the things that tie together my biggest influences: New Orleans, my current life, and the challenges that I've chosen [like] living in New York City, going through the pandemic, becoming a parent for the first time. Having Cellar come in as the piece of the puzzle that’s wrapping its arms around it and bringing it out into the world is truly special. I feel, we all feel safer in Canada.
Getting to work with Cory, who of course I've known and respected for two decades now, but actually getting to work more alongside him on a project, it's very cool. The Cellar Jazz Club is where I saw many of my rockstar teachers perform back in university, also the first place I saw Ingrid Jensen perform... That’s a place where as soon as I moved to New York, everyone was saying, Oh, Vancouver, like the Cellar, Cory Weeds! He's been creating an incredible international reputation for the jazz scene in Vancouver and bridging that in a lot of ways, so it's a pleasure to be a part of it.
WC: I very much look forward to seeing you and hearing you at Jazz at the Bolt as a nice capstone to that sentiment that you just described. Thank you for taking the time to chat with me about the album today. I really appreciate it.
BS: Of course. Right back at you.